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Wait until the transaction is confirmed. Finally, send your order and payment confirmation to. Buying goods generates profits. Profitable companies employ people. Employed people get money. Then they spend that money. If people think their buying power will increase with "hodling", the economy collapses into a deflationary spiral.
There are countries like Japan trying to devalue their currency and failing at it there are signs of life after trying for 3 decades, Japan stock market ATH is in , think about it, it crashed and never recovered, still about half the value of ATH right now.
Deflationary spiral is the worst. The idea of decentralized anything is interesting. For money, deflation cannot be hardcoded into it. Otherwise it can't work as a currency in the long term and it is poised to be a speculation device which is what we are seeing with bitcoin. Future's decentralised money, if it will exist, must not have deflation built in and needs to have a solution for ensuring price stability which is the job of central banks now, so it needs a decentralised solution.
When that "coin" arrives, no one will see it as an "investment opportunity" or "get rich quick" device. They'll just use it. Because you don't invest in a currency. If you feel the need to invest in a currency, that means it will fail to be a currency. Gold worked pretty well as money for thousand years of history until Nixon. Or am I missing something? Gold actually didn't work well. You'd be a fool to heavily invest in capital in the second situation. There's a reason nobody uses the gold standard.
The rate of gold mining is so small as to be negligible. Why would 0 inflation be catastrophic when 0. That doesn't make it inflationary at all. Inflation isn't based on supply increasing, it's based on the equilibrium between supply and demand. There are two very different forms of inflation: monetary inflation increase in the money supply and value inflation decrease in the value of the money.
Your currency can be monetarily inflating while it's value is deflating ie growing. As long as bitcoins are mined, yes it is inflationary but the emission decreases over time to 0. In fact, the inflation rate of bitcoin at this time is higher than that of the USD money supply. It is the fractional reserve infrastructure surrounding the USD that makes BTC relatively deflationary to the total amount of debt created. Particularly for governments that couldn't inflate away their debts.
They tried to by putting less and and less of the real metal in but people aren't stupid so the old coins became more valuable than what was marked on their face. It would still be worth a shilling or whatever denomination you choose, but the amount of gold in that coin was less.
Can you tell me why gold is valuable? In practical applications, gold has been too soft to be useful for most of human history. You want to make something or kill someone, plenty of other metals are much more useful than gold. It's great in electronics but that's a relatively recent discovery. Gold has historically been valuable because humans all went "we want the shiny! If you think people will stop spending because the currency is very slowly deflating, you are completing ignoring patience and desire.
Most people have little patience for financial growth and strong desire for possessions. How many people do you know that are investing well for their future vs buying their new merc? I always laugh at people who think that Americans will starve rather than buy stuff. Everything that we know about Americans proves this wrong. Ah, the deflationary spiral argument. Understand that Bitcoin is deflationary by design, and completely predictable.
If the economy that uses Bitcoin grows, the per-unit value of Bitcoin proportionally increases also. Bitcoins only deflate in value when the Bitcoin Economy is growing.
On the other hand, deflationary spirals in fiat are unpredictable, and that's what makes them destructive. Another key difference is that fiat is debt-based, while Bitcoin is an asset - traditional economic models may not apply. This is an experiment that is playing itself out, we'll just have to wait and see for empirical evidence.
Very predictable. Completely predictable! The most predictable! I wasn't talking about the price of Bitcoin. I'm talking about the deflationary nature of the asset.
It just means that the value of the currency is increasing over time. In other words, prices are lowering, making it easier to buy stuff.
This can be bad though as it can be driven by low demand for goods, meaning companies need to continuously lower prices further to get business. So, it seems as if you're saying that low demand for goods is what drives the increasing value in a deflationary currency. Am I missing something It's more complicated than a linear relationship to demand - currency value is influenced by prevailing interest rates, exchange rates, and other factors, but that's a very simplified explanation.
This is inflation. At the margin, it provides an incentive to purchase goods now rather than wait. Now suppose the opposite: instead of expecting prices to rise, you expect them to fall. Aggregate demand drops, which also leads to drops in supply — layoffs, furloughs, etc. Less investment, less incentive to start firms. It is actually an inflationary asset.
Just because your currency is gradually appreciating in value doesn't mean you won't spend it. You'll just be more careful what you spend it on. Bitcoin supply is still increasing, just at a decreasing rate as time goes on. So people might save a few bucks instead of buying worthless junk all the time? Oh no. But honestly, they'd still buy worthless junk. Hyper inflation is the worst.
Deflation naturally re balances even after a spiraling situation. This is because people have to eat. It also creates efficient asset allocation. Inflation when induced by money printing does not re balance. People starve and eat old food. Note food and many things are perishable ie fashion. Hyper inflation creates inefficient or random asset allocation at best.
While I don't totally disagree I'm very cautious when my broker wants mo to buy something This "need to control" the market is troublesome, and I don't trust anyone to do the controlling It's their mistake, they should suffer the consequences It was all just conditioning so that "an acceptable" amount of inflation is expected.
They're literally just skimming off the top and everybody's cool with it. I think were lucky if they are just "skimming" The CPI doesn't even pretend to gauge monetary inflation, only price inflation. And yes, it's constantly tweaked to keep it low so the government doesn't have to pay as much out for programs that have payments tethered to CPI. Most Americans are deep in debt. Inflation makes debts easier to pay off over time. The inflation in the current system therefore helps most Americans.
You missed the point that this system is dynamic like many other economical systems and sure it will come to an equilibrium point..
I understand your point, but my argument is you can't get to that end state without encountering this paradox. In order for Bitcoin to be widely adopted, it needs people to use it, which people aren't incentivized to do because it's early days and there's a potential for return. You're absolutely wrong. Bitcoin isn't deflationary, it's non inflationary. When market saturation is reached, the value will only grow at the rate of gdp growth.
People are absolutely right when they say gold is a similar value-increasing currency that never had any catastrophic deflationary spirals. A deflationary spiral is not the result of anything related to the currency directly but is, rather, a symptom of a failing economy where investments have gone rotten and people don't feel safe in lending their money to other people in that economy.
It has nothing to do with the money itself. The fear of a deflationary currency is not rooted in solid economic theory, but is misinformed historical analysis.
It's misinterpreting the symptom as the cause. You should rethink why you think a deflationary currency is unsustainable. False The idea that people's currency increasing in value is a BAD thing is bullshit told by people who benefit from inflation or believed by those who don't know any better.
A currency without demand will not have liquidity and therefore will not be useful. The only reason currencies have value is because people are willing to invest in or hold them. The idea that people's currency increasing in value is a BAD thing is bullshit told by people who benefit from inflation or believed by those who don't know any better. Inflation certainly does benefit debt holders.
But it also greatly benefits those who create money. If all money just expanded equally--e. And that someone isn't you.
Yes, i see no issue with some inflation if income and prices are adjusted to it quickly enough. It avoids the concentration of unproductive capital. No, it gains value when people anticipate more people using it as a currency in the future than are right now.
There is no contradiction: as adoption spreads, the remaining potential for growth will decrease, and its viability as a currency will increase as speculation tapers off. Yeah this is not a new concept. It's death by deflation. When a currency continues to increase in value and is used by people as an investment, people stop using it to buy goods and services.
It eventually deflates itself out of existence as a currency. If the value of USD keeps going up, people will just start hoarding USD and using oranges to buy cows and vice versa. For me, bitcoins or satoshis , are also a permission to write on the most secure and immutable Blockchain available.
So that is one point, why i keep holding some, spend some sometimes, but also restock. Because I'm pretty sure that we'll see more and more "use" of bitcoins as a "needed ressource", to make an entry in the Blockchain. Simple usecase: i tell my teacher i finished my assignment yesterday, but couldn't hand it in since i was sick and didn't come to class. Ofc he doesnt believe me, so I Have a hash of the assignment PDF as a message to a transaction with the date as well. Show him when you come back to the class that the hash of what you are handing in hasn't changed.
Voila, proof, that you completed your work on time. I'd wager that a very large majority have gotten into Bitcoin to get rich, to "go to the moon", buy lambos and retire early. It's all hype and greed. They won't be spending it because they don't actually give a shit about its future as currency. Yep, the real winners, the pump-and-dump whales, will be able to squeeze more out of the unsuspecting masses. That's because you're on Reddit. I recommend the Let's Talk Bitcoin podcast for informed discussion from people who actually use Bitcoin.
I love these guys. The podcast includes episodes that talk about other cryptos sometimes, too. You can't talk about the day bitcoin stops inflating in like and then say "who's spending bitcoin today?
People say hodl today because we haven't reached market saturation yet - bitcoin is massively undervalued because most people in the world don't understand it.
Things won't be like that forever. Eventually the price will stabilize as the world at large understands and starts using bitcoin, especially as things like the lightning network make it far more convenient to use. Those of us who know what we're doing are spending them, sure. It's trivial to replace your btc with fiat after or before!
Sure, but given a competitive market for currencies why would you choose to consume using a currency that is generally supposed to rise in value? Bitcoin as currency and bitcoin as investment are at odds with each other. The hodl mentality is actually killing Bitcoin as currency. The bubble and volatility created by hype and hodling is exactly why Bitcoin is getting the bans and rejection e. I was wondering if he got it from me! Sadly the inventors of Bitcoin knew a lot about computer programming, but nothing about economics.
Spot on, i'm a programmer and the average economic literacy in this field is at the 6th grade level. I'd argue that the latter are at higher risk. As human being, we all need to eat, drink, have fun. A lot of us even feel the need to start a family. Inflationnary currency or not doesn't change the fact that people will spend to survive and to have a good time. People won't stop spending only because their money will be worth more, later.
Just not our saving account anyway. And we all still spend money like crazy. Why is that? I go to the bar because I want to have fun. If I want my money to be worth more in the future, I can easily invest it already. Everyone can. Sure, there is always some risk, of course, but everyone can still invest their USD in something to fight off inflation and make their money work for them. Why do we still spend it, then? I still spend it tho. Most of us do.
It as nothing to do with inflation. Why would it be different with bitcoin, once price discovery phase is done and value slightly rise each year? The only difference is that saving money will be simple, instead of complicated. If I want to save money safely for later with a slight rise of value as supply is getting more and limited, I transfer my BTC to a harware wallet.
If I want to have fun, I spend it for a video game or at the strip club, right now. Money exists to be used. It exists to facilitate transactions. The perfect economy is one where every person either uses their money to consume, where they pay someone for a good or service right now, or to invest, where they pay someone to find a way to make a way to produce cheaper, better or new goods and services that can be used in the future. In both examples your money is used to pay someone else in the economy, you either pay them for something they can currently offer you or you pay them for something they can offer you in the future.
Likewise you are paid by others making the same decision. Your income relies on other people using their money and deciding that you have something valuable to offer them now or in the future. Deflation is bad because it causes less money to move from person to person since more money is just uselessly held by people expecting the value to go up. Instead of paying others for current or future stuff you keep your money in your pocket which creates no productive benefit to anyone.
In fact, since the supply of money is limited in a deflationary economy you are actually harming the rest of the economy by making it harder for everyone who need to get their hands on money to conduct their own transactions. It's incentivizing a conscious decision about your consumption.
Demand is limited too, Bitcoin will not increase forever. Plus if people expect something to increase in value, they plan for it and buy some in advance giving it a one-time increase. When selling something, the seller would like a very high price for the item. When buying something, the buyer would ideally like to get it free.
This creates an unsustainable system given that people either buy things for an infinite amount of money and miss out or nothing ever sells and they miss out on a return.
At least ne must be violated. Items either sell at a very high price, or they are given away for free. Do people honestly think that by the time every Bitcoin is mined the masses are going to buy the coin just to make transactions? And regardless. The thing that really grinds my gears is the fact that people without knowledge bought into it.
They bought in december and now they are getting destroyed. Homes, families and peoples lives will crash and burn.